Episode 99 – LIVE at Harpoon Brewery — Our Drunkest Episode Yet

Scott: Friends With Brews.

Peter: Okay, this is Friends With Brews. I’m Peter, that’s Scott.

Scott: I am Scott.

Peter: And we are at Harpoon Brewery, and we each have a flight. And I already don’t remember, but mine’s not accurate because I ordered a… I’ve got a Boston Irish Stout, a Harpoon Dark, not the Mountain Ale, and the Harpoon Hoppy Brown, and I don’t remember what the Mountain Ale was not.

Scott: Yeah, I’ve got the Seaport After Midnight, which I believe is the stout. I’ve got the Mountain Ale, which is not the Mountain Ale. Isn’t that what we just said? I’ve got the UFO White, and this says Hoppy Brown, but I don’t remember it.

Peter: That’s what I got.

Scott: No, this is the Mud thing.

Peter: Mud Season-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … is the Hoppy Brown.

Scott: Okay.

Peter: Yep. Okay. So-

Scott: So two of ours are the same

Peter: … the Boston Irish Stout, yeah, that’s a Guinness.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: I mean, it’s, like if I didn’t know better, I would say this is Guinness. It’s like, not like Guinness, it’s Guinness.

Scott: This one here?

Peter: The Boston Irish Stout.

Scott: Oh, I didn’t get the Irish one.

Peter: I did. I got Boston Irish Stout.

Scott: I got the other stout.

Peter: You can tell by the cream on top. I mean, like I said, if I didn’t know this wasn’t Guinness, I would say this is Guinness.

Scott: This is a good stout.

Peter: It’s not like a Guinness.

Scott: This is the Harpoon Stout

Peter: … this is Guinness. Harpoon Boston Irish Stout. What’s yours say?

Scott: Mine says Harpoon Seaport After Midnight.

Peter: That’s different.

Scott: This is the Seaport Stout.

Peter: That’s not the same.

Scott: It is. That’s right.

Peter: This is also a good stout, but again, it’s like Guinness.

Scott: I don’t know.

Peter: Maybe I’ll have to try one of those.

Scott: I haven’t had Guinness in so long that I couldn’t tell you.

Peter: It tastes like water.

Scott: Mm-mm.

Peter: ([laughs]) I find, I find stouts kind of watery. I think that’s kind of funny because I find that stouts are not as stout as porters.

Scott: Oh, I see.

Peter: When I taste a porter, I’m like, ooh, that’s a stout drink.

Scott: That’s true.

Peter: You know? So I think-

Scott: I agree with you on that. Porters are a little much for me usually.

Peter: Yeah. But I do like it. Now, I have the Harpoon Dark. Did you get the Harpoon Dark?

Scott: Um, I don’t know. This says Harpoon Mountain Ale, which I’m guessing is the dark.

Peter: No, Harpoon Mountain Ale, ’cause I have Harpoon Dark. I also have Harpoon Mountain Ale on paper, but it’s-

Scott: I didn’t get the Dark, I got the UFO White instead.

Peter: Right.

Scott: And then I got the Mudslide.

Peter: The White Dark.

Scott: Whichever one of these is the Mudslide, I’m not sure. This one says Harpoon Mountain Ale. This one says Harp- Harpoon Hoppy.

Peter: The Hoppy Brown is the Mud Season.

Scott: Okay.

Peter: Okay, so now I’m onto the Harpoon Dark. I like this better. There’s mar- more flavor than the Harpoon Boston Irish Stout.

Scott: I can’t tell because I’m such a lightweight these days that, um, the beer’s already going to my head.

Peter: The Harpoon Dark feels… There’s more to it. There’s definitely more flavor.

Scott: There’s more flavor.

Peter: No question. Um…

Scott: I don’t know, I like this Sea… I like the Seaport Stout better.

Peter: Okay. And I like the Dark Stout-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … or the Dark better than the Boston Irish Stout. ([laughs]) So we’re flipping around, but we’re not comparing the same beers yet, which-

Scott: No

Peter: … okay.

Scott: Now I’m getting the UFO White.

Peter: Now I’m on… You’re getting the UFO White, but I’m moving on to the mystery beer.

Scott: I think this is probably right in the way.

Peter: Which is not the Mountain Ale, so I don’t know what I’m… I don’t remember what I ordered.

Scott: This is a good middle ale. It’s nice and light. This is a very different drink.

Peter: This is better. Okay, mine are getting better as I go along, and I, I don’t think it’s ’cause I’m getting drunk yet, but I… It is. Got about two ounces of beer in me, so… But this is the Harpoon Mountain Ale label, but it’s not a Harpoon. I forget what it is that I ([laughs]) ordered.

Scott: Peter, you either are getting drunk already or you have physical problems because I think you wet your pants already. No.

Peter: But I forgot what it was before I even started drinking. ([laughs])

Scott: I know. ([laughs])

Peter: So… But it’s the best so far.

Scott: This is, this is a nice ale. This is definitely a different drink, as you may have pointed out.

Peter: Different bite.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: That’s the Hefeweizen, the, you know, or their, their white ale. That’s their trade signature, along with their IPA, I guess, ’cause everyone serves an IPA.

Scott: You could drink a lot of these, let me put it that way.

Peter: I have drunk a lot of those.

Scott: These, you couldn’t drink so many.

Peter: No. You, there’s a natural limiter.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: All right. And then finally, the Hoppy Brown. Now, I don’t like hoppy, but I do love a strong brown ale, and this is apparently an 8.4% ABV, I think, which is pretty… That’s up there.

Scott: I will be interested in hearing your thoughts about this one.

Peter: Surprisingly, I like it. Now, it’s… As I first sniff it, I can smell the piney-

Scott: Ugh

Peter: … hoppy smell.

Scott: Yeah, I don’t.

Peter: Which I don’t like.

Scott: No.

Peter: But…

Scott: So I’ll be honest.

Peter: Okay, you know, as is, on the seventh, on the… Blah, blah, blah. On the second s-

Scott: On the seventh day of Venice

Peter: … getting-

Scott: ([laughs])

Peter: … more, more of the piney hoppiness, which I don’t care for as much.

Scott: I don’t like this one. This is, this is the least favorite of all of them.

Peter: I concur.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: But it has more personality than the Boston Irish Stout.

Scott: It has more personality, it’s just a really bad one.

Peter: That’s… Well, like, like Bill Cosby said, and I know we’re not supposed to talk Cosby ’cause he’s a criminal, et cetera, but he was a funny guy back before we knew that. He said, “Well, you know, when you, you know, you take cocaine it brings out more of your personality.” And he said, “Yeah, but what if you’re an ([laughs]) asshole?” There you go. This one has more personality. Going back as a palate cleanser. ([laughs])

Scott: Yeah. I’m gonna finish this one so that I don’t have to drink it anymore.

Peter: ([cleats throat]) Yeah, so that pretty much washed away all the flavor ’cause there’s nothing. This just neutralizes everything. I think the third one, which again, ([laughs]) is a mystery beer at this point, which I think is your second beer. When she comes back, we gotta ask her, what did we get?

Scott: Yeah. I think her name is

Peter: I, I don’t remember the name of the beer. Are you expecting me to name, ([laughs]) remember the name of the waitress?

Scott: Right. But that’s because what it says on the ticket isn’t what it really is.

Peter: I know.

Scott: But she said her real name, I assume, unless she’s working under an alias, which is-

Peter: Well, we also said the real name of the beer ([laughs]) and I don’t remember it.

Scott: It is possible that she’s on a witness relocation program and that’s not her real name

Peter: … chic. ([laughs]) Her name could be Har, you know, or-

Scott: Har, her name is Har

Peter: … Har.

Scott: Har.

Peter: Har. Um, back to the other

Scott: By the way, people, I have-

Peter: That dog was nice. I like-

Scott: I, I have a Wagyu burger coming, and Peter has

Peter: Chicken thighs-

Scott: Yes

Peter: … sandwich. Yes. I did not get the goat, which is the fried chicken sandwich, ’cause I didn’t think… I’m doing fried potatoes, but I’m not doing a fried sandwich.

Scott: Right. By fried potatoes you mean french fries.

Peter: Yes. Pomme frites, if you will. Okay, this is good.

Scott: I, I want-

Peter: Should we keep torturing our people for a whole episode, or should we talk about another topic while-

Scott: Let’s talk about another topic. What do you wanna talk about, Peter?

Peter: I, I don’t know. What, what are we preparing to talk about? Let’s prepare.

Scott: Let’s prepare. You’re always preparing.

Peter: We don’t prepare, that’s the thing, is most of our episodes we don’t prepare. We just talk.

Scott: By the way, most of our episodes we’re like, what is it, 2500 miles apart?

Peter: Approximately.

Scott: Yeah

Peter: Give or take.

Scott: Mm-hmm.

Peter: But here we are recording live-

Scott: Yep

Peter: … in person for the second time?

Scott: Yep.

Peter: Second time, I think.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: Yeah.

Scott: Yeah, ’cause we did it when, remember when Anna made marionberry pie or whatever it was?

Peter: If I was bear… If I were desperate ([laughs]). If you were bear. So what’s, how do we rate… Let’s rate these.

Scott: Okay.

Peter: So my Harpoon Boston Irish Stout, I’m giving it a side thumb. It’s good for what it is, but it’s not my thing. I’m not a huge Guinness guy, right? If you like Guinness, you’ll like this, ’cause you won’t be able to tell the difference, I assure you.

Scott: Guinness is Irish, right?

Peter: Yeah.

Scott: I hope Irish come here to kill you now. ([laughs])

Peter: So there’s nothing going on there, so it’s a side thumb for the first beer for me. What about you?

Scott: Um, I like this one. This is also, this is the… But this one is a stout, but it’s the Harpoon, Harpoon Sea Port-

Peter: Sea Port Stout

Scott: … after dark stout.

Peter: Oh my God. I’m already confused. ([laughs]) You’re spilling your beer, and you’ve drunk like half of it and you’re still spilling somehow.

Scott: I’m spilling my words.

Peter: Okay, number two, the Harpoon Dark. This is a thumbs up. There’s much more flavor in this. I don’t know what this is, the, the Dark. She took our witness relocation waitress, waitress relocation program took the beer list, so we don’t have the descriptions of all of these.

Scott: I didn’t know there was a waitress relocation. ([laughs])

Peter: I think there is. I think if you get fired then you can move on to another. The, the Harpoon Dark I approve. This is good. It’s a dark, uh, ale I think. Um-

Scott: This says Harpoon Mountain Ale, so yours is different.

Peter: But mine says Harpoon Mountain Ale too. That’s this one.

Scott: Oh.

Peter: This is the same beer. But we don’t know what it-

Scott: Okay

Peter: … but it’s not the Harpoon Mountain Ale.

Scott: Pontive.

Peter: Pont- ([laughs])

Scott: St- strope?

Peter: Are you trying to remember German right now?

Scott: Storp. Storp. That’s prost backwards.

Peter: Oh.

Scott: Kon pa-

Peter: You know what language I think would be harder than hell to learn is fricking Dutch

Scott: Dutch. Fricking Dutch? Is that a dialect?

Peter: Fricking Dutch, yeah. ([laughs])

Scott: As opposed to Pennsylvania Dutch? What were we talk- what were we just talking about?

Peter: Oh, man. We were talking about the repoot. The repoot. ([laughs]) We were reviewing. This is the worst episode ever. Worse. This is the best.

Scott: We don’t drink very much anymore, you guys.

Peter: That’s the thing. We started this beer, I was drinking like Three Philosophers, which is a 9.7 ABV.

Scott: I know.

Peter: You’re drinking two-

Scott: And we were handling it.

Peter: You were drinking two beers perhaps.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: I won’t say I was handling it. I was drinking it, but I was not-

Scott: No, we weren’t this bad

Peter: … I, I was definitely this bad on occasion. I don’t- Oh, yeah… hate- Here, go back. Oh, the food’s coming. This is gonna be fun. All right, stand by. That’s a great- So, thank you. Well, you’re, you… Be careful, you might get on camera too- Okay… which is perfectly fine. ([laughs]) Uh, he’s got the Wagyu burger. Yes. I have your- I’ve got the chicken thighs.

Scott: Thank you

Peter: … oh, chicken thigh. You’re stealing my food. ([laughs])

Scott: I’ll steal your food.

Peter: That is fantastic.

Scott: I want your food and I want mine. Thank you.

Peter: Two questions- Mm-hmm… if you, if you wanna be on camera. Your name was? My name’s Kim. You got it right.

Scott: Kim.

Peter: That’s great.

Scott: I got it right. Yeah.

Peter: So you remembered her name.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: Now neither of us can remember ([laughs]) what did we order that’s not the Mountain Ale? That is called Big Toasty. Big Toasty. Yep. And what’s the description of the Big Toasty? It’s also, it’s an English strong ale. English strong, thank you. Yes. It’s an English strong ale. This is Mud Season. Yes. Which we-

Scott: This one is my least favorite

Peter: … which-

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Oh, I-

Scott: So I drank it early so that I could-

Peter: Yeah, Mud Season is-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … we’ve decided is both our least favorite. Okay.

Scott: It’s too hoppy.

Peter: Big Toasty is good. It’s a lot hoppy for them.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: I got the not Guinness, not at all Guinness, but totally Guinness. This, yeah. But- It’s the Nitro line… and he got the other dark-

Scott: The S- Seaport.

Peter: The Seaport

Scott: … this is good.

Peter: Seaport Stout. Very good, right?

Scott: Yeah. It’s really-

Peter: That one’s better, he says. Yeah, it’s a lactose stout. It’s got a cocoa nib and vanilla in it as well. All right. A little sweet. Great. Cool. See, we decided to call the expert-

Scott: You should try this one

Peter: … to tell us what this… I’ll probably get one of my own.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: So- I’ll highlight all these beers for you-

Scott: I’ll, I’ll definitely have another one of these

Peter: … so please let me know. Well, we were wondering if you would be able to help, and you did. Yeah. My pleasure. ([laughs]) So this is great. Now you’re gonna be famous. Our tens of listeners are gonna know your name, and yep, they’re n- and now you’re famous.

Scott: There you go.

Peter: ([laughs]) So. Come see us at Harpoon. Yes. Um- Harpoon-

Scott: Yes

Peter: … the official brewery of the Friends with Brews podcast. ([laughs]) Absolutely.

Scott: Thank you.

Peter: Uh, you need anything else from your meals, my friends? Thank you. I think we’ve got everything I need right in here. Right in here for you. Perfect. Thank you. Enjoy.

Scott: So after, Peter, after you finish these, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna get more beer?

Peter: I’ve g- if I’m still vertical. That’s a, that’s a qualifier.

Scott: Oh my God.

Peter: So do you need mustard? I don’t need mustard, but I definitely need pepper and I need ketchup and I need Cholula. Oh, you know what, Kim? The, oh, you know what I’m gonna do? I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna steal someone else’s Cholula.

Scott: I don’t know what he said ’cause I can’t hear anymore because I’m drunk. It’s time before the snow starts up. That is assumption- I’m having a Wagyu burger.

Peter: What the heck? All the Cholulas are, are almost empty here. This is-

Scott: I’m trying to sell my Wagyu.

Peter: Well, show your Wagyu. It isn’t a Wagyu. Isn’t there a Y in there?

Scott: Yeah, it’s Wagyu.

Peter: You keep calling it-

Scott: I said Wagyu

Peter: … you keep calling it Wagoo. I’m like, I’m surprised you’re not calling it Magoo like Mr. Magoo.

Scott: I’m being funny.

Peter: All right, for, for Foodnoms, I need to log this, but I can’t take a photo of it. Can you take a photo of my food-

Scott: I can, yes

Peter: … for Foodnoms? I’m really curious to see how Foodnoms logs this thing. It’s like, oh, that’s 40,000 calories or-

Scott: This is, mine is 50,000.

Peter: Wow. Fair enough

Scott: Yeah, I’ll send you your photo.

Peter: So we’re gonna like eat on camera while we continue this episode?

Scott: Yep.

Peter: Cool. Sorry, dear listener. Oh, this french fry is amazing.

Scott: Wow.

Peter: Did you try the fry chips?

Scott: This beer is hitting me so hard that I don’t even know how to send this photo to you. ([laughs]) And by the way, today we were installing Sophos firewalls and configuring things, and now I don’t even know how to send a photo. ([laughs]) That’s awesome.

Peter: The fries are really good.

Scott: They are good. These are amazing.

Peter: Like, wow. Oh, man. Okay. I do want the food closer to me than the beers at the moment though, so I’m moving this aside.

Scott: Yep, yep.

Peter: So the English style ale I do like. This is-

Scott: I don’t know what you’re talking about. I don’t think I got that one.

Peter: Yeah, you did, because it’s in the mountain ale. Or unless we have two-

Scott: Oh

Peter: … lies.

Scott: So this one?

Peter: Yeah.

Scott: All right. Let me try it out.

Peter: Yeah, the English style ale. I like that one.

Scott: I like this one too. I do not like it as much as the After Midnight, the port.

Peter: The, the Seaport Stout.

Scott: I like the Seaport Stout. That is just good stuff.

Peter: Yep.

Scott: I also like the UFO White. Totally different kind.

Peter: Yeah.

Scott: Very good.

Peter: Absolutely. For some reason, I was in a dark beer mood though. Don’t know why.

Scott: You’re in a dark mood.

Peter: I’m in a dark mood.

Scott: You’re in a dark mood, people.

Peter: Oh, these fries are good. Wow.

Scott: Doing network equipment swap outs puts you in a dark mood.

Peter: Mm.

Scott: By the way, if you ever need to engage professional services from Sophos, Mark is your man. He is so good.

Peter: Okay. I’ll, I’ll make a note of that. ([laughs])

Scott: Yeah. No, you… I’m telling them. You know this. You were there. Jesus.

Peter: You’re on front. Ah, making a mess of things. Okay, you are drunk. I’m-

Scott: I cannot believe how-

Peter: I’m not drunk

Scott: … fast and-

Peter: I play one on the internet

Scott: … I can’t believe how fast and how hard these beers hit me. Big time.

Peter: Now you know how I feel every time I drink beer. ([laughs])

Scott: Same here. I’m a lightweight now.

Peter: Really?

Scott: By the way, speaking of lightweight, you are in amazing shape.

Peter: Why thank you. I’m actually up a few pounds.

Scott: I am definitely up a few. I need to lose 10 right now.

Peter: But I figure with all the running I’m doing, and I will soon be training again for the, um, the authentic marathon from Marathon to Athens. It’ll-

Scott: Authentic?

Peter: That’s the name of the n- the marathon. It’s the Authentic Marathon. Didn’t I tell you that? I’ve been, I talked about it.

Scott: In Greece?

Peter: Yeah. That’s what… I’m going to do that in November. I just-

Scott: That’s what they call it?

Peter: The Authentic Marathon.

Scott: If I was Greece, I would call it, “We were first, motherfuckers,” marathon.

Peter: Oh, you don’t know? Authentic, that’s Greek for we were first, motherfuckers.

Scott: ([laughs]) That’s good.

Peter: For you. That’s my next goal.

Scott: Hey.

Peter: I’ll be running the, the Authentic Marathon from Marathon to Greek.

Scott: Do you speak any Greek?

Peter: Very little, so I’m gonna start practicing that, which means my German is going to be suffering ’cause-

Scott: I assume your father spoke Greek.

Peter: Yeah, that’s the thing. My parents, my father, as most of our listeners probably know, my father was from Athens. My mom was from Stuttgart. And as a result of that, I grew up speaking English.

Scott: That is not as a result. They could’ve… One of them could have taught you their language, and you could have used it with the other one.

Peter: Yeah. So dad was from Greece, mom was from Germany, and therefore in the house we spoke only English, and I-

Kim: Everything fantastic so far?

Peter: Very fantastic.

Scott: Fantastic. Yes, absolutely.

Peter: Special cameo by Kim.

Kim: ([laughs])

Peter: Photo bomb. That was… When I was a kid, I was like, you know, the only-

Scott: Kim’s natural

Peter: … the only thing I… the only complaint I had about my parents was that they didn’t teach me their own languages. That was the only growing up as a child. I should’ve been trilingual-

Scott: So-

Peter: … by the time I was eight years old

Scott: … here’s the th- here’s an interesting story. Anna, my wife, she’s half Korean. Her mom is Korean. Her and her brother hated, like, they didn’t like Korean food. They hated the kimchi thing. They hated all that stuff when the sh- when sh- they were little. They didn’t wanna learn Korean. Now my wife wants to learn Korean. Now she loves kimchi. Now she loves Korean food, and there’s even the possibility that we will try to live in Korea.

Peter: Really?

Scott: However, I will say this in her defense, kids have terrible taste.

Peter: Yeah. Oh, totally. Kids don’t know anything. I’m just polishing off this bottle of Cholula.

Scott: What is that?

Peter: Hot sauce.

Scott: This is the drunkest fwb-

Peter: The friendliest beers we’ve drunk

Scott: … we’ve ever done.

Peter: Well, we’re gonna have to be here for a while before I can drive us home.

Scott: I… Yes.

Peter: So I guess we should try to order more beer. ([laughs])

Scott: ’Cause Peter ripped apart his self-driving thing. ([laughs]) He destroyed it.

Peter: I did. Yeah, so that’s a problem. A while ago, I had to remount my Comma Three, the self-driving, open source self-driving hardware in my Kia.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: And I bought some double-sided 3M tape supposedly made for this sort of application, and it lasted like an hour, and then the camera fell off, and it’s hanging by the USB cord.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: Which I’m sure is great for the connector.

Scott: Oh my God.

Peter: So went back, searched on Amazon, found some other 3M double-sided tape specifically made for, like, dash cams and things, and I bought that. And it still doesn’t hold. It falls, so I’m like, “Ugh.”

Scott: The picker’s like, “Eh.”

Peter: Eh. ([laughs]) Are you serious?

Scott: Are you serious right now?

Peter: So, yes. So that’s what happened there. Meanwhile, I got a note that my scheduled task has succeeded, and my non-iRobot, non-Roomba Uninell robot vacuum at home is starting.

Scott: By the way, in the episode that I’m editing right now, your Roomba makes many cameos.

Peter: The Uninell. It’s not the Roomba.

Scott: I’m sorry, the Uninell. And I will say that it knows very little about your floor, given the square space that you have. It’s just hilarious.

Peter: Oh my God.

Scott: I sent you the map.

Peter: Yes.

Scott: Didn’t I send you the map of what it looks like?

Peter: Yeah. So my… The room looks… The room is vaguely shaped like this piece of paper, this rectangle. But the map, the map of the room that the f- the Roomba, that the non-Roomba robot thinks of, is like this piece of bacon. ([laughs])

Scott: Yes.

Peter: And like that-

Scott: It’s not even that big. It’s way less.

Peter: But it’s also a little more… It’s, it’s about that same shape, though. It’s that irregular shape, which I just think is hilarious. Oh my God, there is so much dressing on this. Wow.

Scott: Yeah. I’m… I’ve got juice running all over my-

Peter: FoodNoms is gonna have to up the… Well, I think that’s mustard though, right? Or speared. No.

Scott: Up your FoodNoms. ([laughs])

Peter: Yeah. I’ve… Yeah, up your aspirations.

Scott: By the way, I told you that-

Peter: ([laughs]) This is huge

Scott: … I told you what my daughter thinks about FoodNoms AI because, like, she’s had to try to take portions, it’s like it has no sense of scale.

Peter: So on that note, what I was doing a few months back is I would use the Measure app on the phone, which I can’t do right now ’cause I’m using them. I’m recording.

Scott: Oh, my God. I don’t wanna hear it.

Peter: To measure the size of the portion.

Scott: Oh, good. Um-

Peter: And say, like this morning, did this morning at breakfast.

Scott: We’re still talking about food.

Peter: I said, “This is a seven-inch baguette, which is slightly above average for a baguette.” And I was like, “I was really hoping you would tell me this was 13 inches.” ([laughs])

Scott: ([laughs])

Peter: I can’t hold all the other ones. So-

Scott: ([laughs])

Peter: Sorry. I’m just gonna savor the f- savor the fa- flavor here and pretend that I’m drinking alone. ([laughs]) That’s usually what people want. After they see me, they’re like, “I’m drinking alone.” So I would measure it, and then I would ask Claude or ChatGPT, “Estimate the size and the weight and the nutrition facts of this sandwich based on such and such.” At the very least, I would estimate the weight, and then I would pass that to FoodNoms. So, and I found that helped it for a little while. But in general, I don’t know, FoodNoms will often take a stab at something.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: But I sent you the other day, it was like truffle fries, and it’s like, “Yeah, one serving of truffle fries, 4,318 calories.” ([laughs]) I was like, “Fortunately, I ate like 1/10th of that.” ([sighs])

Scott: This burger is very good.

Peter: This burger and the salads are very good.

Scott: This place is really good, you guys. If you ever come to… Where are we at? Vermont.

Peter: We’re out in Vermont. Yeah.

Scott: Yeah. You should come here.

Peter: Yeah. If you ever come to Vermont, there’s food.

Scott: What’s the full official name? Harpoon?

Peter: This is the-

Scott: Harpoon

Peter: … Harpoon Brewery-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … in Vermont. Yeah.

Scott: Look it up. Go there.

Peter: It was the Catamount Brewery, and Catamount filed for bankruptcy. And Harpoon-

Scott: Nothing

Peter: … remember exactly what happened. If, if Harp- if, uh, Harpoon was, like, using the same bank as the one that they were defaulting on their loans to Catamount to or something, but someone brokered a deal.

Scott: Oh. Someone said, “Hey, I know so-and-so.”

Peter: I know a guy. And as a result, Catamount is still a thing. And so you can… There’s even a Catamount IPA on the menu, which if you like IPAs, you might wanna try.

Scott: But meanwhile, the Catamount people are… They committed suicide.

Peter: Did they?

Scott: I don’t know. I’m asking.

Peter: No, you didn’t… That didn’t sound like a question. That sounded like a statement.

Scott: Well…

Peter: Chop suey.

Scott: I mean, okay, the name lives on, but the owners don’t.

Peter: We don’t know that. ([laughs])

Scott: You just said that as a statement again. They’re dead. ([laughs])

Peter: They could have become shareholders for all we know.

Scott: They’re not shareholders. The only thing they’re holding is their despair and their emptiness.

Peter: Again, statement-

Scott: ([laughs])

Peter: … coming from Scott. Mm.

Scott: I’m just telling you what would happen if I went bankrupt.

Peter: Okay. Dear listener, I’ve never asked this in sincerity before, but would you please contribute to our tip jar? Any amount you have, even if it’s a dollar, so that Scott doesn’t go bankrupt and kill himself.

Scott: Thank you. I appreciate it. Mm. Oh, my God. I am getting full.

Peter: You’ve eaten all of your burger and almost all your fries. I’ve barely gotten to half of mine.

Scott: I’m a fast eater. Here’s the thing. When I was a young man, which has been a long time ago, I had a job in a video store that did not give breaks. And so when I went… needed to eat lunch or whatever, I just had to scarf it down. Ever since then, I’ve just eaten way too fast.

Peter: Sounds like being in the Marines.

Scott: Yeah. Except without getting shot at.

Peter: Well, there’s that. I mean, it’s good that you weren’t getting shot at in a video store, but I wouldn’t put it past some of them.

Scott: ([laughs])

Peter: Do you think that’s true for all aspects of the, um, the, the, the military?

Scott: What? Getting shot at?

Peter: No, having to eat fast between breaks and things.

Scott: No, I don’t I don’t think anybody in the Air Force ever had the

Peter: ([laughs])

Scott: Space Force?

Peter: Mm.

Scott: The Space Force has never done anything. Actually, are there people enrolled? Are there people who are members of the Space Force?

Peter: Space Force is a thing. They have a thing. Trump made it in his first term.

Scott: Yeah, but are there people-

Peter: He has space people

Scott: … or are there just leaders? Are there just people who say, “Here’s what we would do”?

Peter: Leaders are people.

Scott: In this case, no. ([laughs])

Peter: ([laughs]) Mm.

Scott: Holy cow.

Peter: Mm.

Scott: The problem with drinking, besides the fact that I’m lightweight and I get drunk immediately-

Peter: That’s a problem?

Scott: No. Yes, because, A, I want more food, and B, I want more beer, and those are problems.

Peter: The problem with drinking is I wanna drink more.

Scott: And I wanna eat more.

Peter: Well, there’s, that is a problem.

Scott: There’s nothing coming out of there.

Peter: A, a couple of drops, one at a time.

Scott: Oh my God.

Peter: Patience, my friend. Patience. W- I, didn’t I, did I hear correctly though? Don’t we, aren’t we supposedly creating a tech force as well, so we’ll see like the cyber force?

Scott: I have no idea what you’re talking about. Is this like the Sam Altmans of the world? What are you talking about?

Peter: No, I heard somewhere, I thought that someone was proposing a, like a cyber force. I’m not kidding. I’m totally serious.

Scott: They, they have dismantled… What is our-

Peter: Yeah, but we’re talking about the military, Scott. We need more military

Scott: What is our national…

Peter: Animal? The eagle.

Scott: No, what is our, like, our national security posture group?

Peter: The NSA? Homeland Security?

Scott: No, I’m talking about the people that-

Peter: Defense Department.

Scott: No. I’m talking about the people that advise on security issues. They’ve basically been dismantled.

Peter: CISA.

Scott: CISA, yes.

Peter: Yeah, but that’s because they’ve… That’s because they told Trump that, you know, he actually lost the ele- the election fair and square. ([laughs]) The tech force has nothing-

Scott: Actually, no, that’s not what they said. What they said was there was no voter fraud.

Peter: Right, which was a-

Scott: Which equates to the same thing.

Peter: Correct.

Scott: All right, Peter, I’m gonna… Because out of these three left, which, who thinks-

Peter: Y- you’ve had, you’ve only drunk slightly more than half of your beer.

Scott: I don’t even know the name of this one anymore. This says-

Peter: That was the English…

Scott: No, this says Mountain Ale.

Peter: Right, which means it was the English S- the English ale because I have that same one.

Scott: So I like that less than these other two.

Peter: Yep.

Scott: So I will drink it now and get rid of it.

Peter: So should I drink the one that I don’t like on the ben- anytime?

Scott: Yeah, get rid of it. Get the hoppy hell out of here.

Peter: Or I could just not drink it.

Scott: Well, that is true. That’s choice. ([laughs])

Peter: Mm. This ale is good.

Scott: Peter, everything here is amazing.

Peter: Are they playing Culture Club? They’re playing, like, classics of the ’80s here, except I think they were playing a song by Def Leppard in their, like, revival or whatever they’re, they’re coming back.

Scott: You know what’s hilarious? I was thinking I should go to the bathroom and wash my hands, but I have this mic on, and I don’t know what happens if I turn it off, and then I try to turn it back on again. So if I go in there, people are gonna hear me washing my hands, so they’re probably gonna hear some guy farting in the stall. ([laughs]) So I don’t know what to do. ([laughs])

Peter: It’s good. We could call this an episode and stop recording. ([laughs])

Scott: There’s gonna be some guy in there screaming, “It burns.”

Peter: ([laughs])

Scott: Sorry, listeners, watchers. So-

Peter: Yeah. Claude Code, do you think it’s getting dumber recently?

Scott: I do think it’s getting dumber in some ways, and Theo’s, uh, critique that it wants to quit, it keeps asking, “Are you, are we done?”

Peter: We saw that.

Scott: “Can I go home?”

Peter: We talked about that-

Scott: Yep

Peter: … on podcast a few episodes ago.

Scott: 3:00 PM, can I, can I go home?

Peter: Question: At what point is there a point where Claude Code gets so dumb-

Scott: No, I think what happens is I do believe that Anthropic is trying to manage their-

Peter: You’re… Okay, yeah

Scott: … available compute.

Peter: Right, right. But what if they throttled it so hard, would you switch to OpenAI, to Chat- to Codex or ChatGPT?

Scott: There would come a point eventually, but it would have to be… It would have to noticeably affect my projects.

Peter: What is that point? What’s the threshold?

Scott: If it constantly said… So for a while it was t- it wouldn’t research anything. Like, it wouldn’t go search the web.

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: And I-

Peter: That’s outside of my scope. Uh, I’m, I’m really made for coding stuff, right?

Scott: Yeah, and I made a memory. I said, “Save this to your memory. I don’t care if you don’t know something. What I don’t want you to do is project something as fact, but you haven’t actually searched to find out yet.”

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: And now every time I ask it a question, it says, “I’m not gonna re- I’m not gonna assume I know. I’m gonna go search.”

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: And so I’ve forced it to go search quite a bit.

Peter: Yep.

Scott: Um, but if it, if it got to the point where it really wasn’t searching anymore, and if it got to the point where w- really wasn’t thinking about stuff, and I had to keep telling it stuff over and over… Like, for a while you had the same problem where it wouldn’t do a fricking Git commit, and I was like, “First of all, if you’re-

Peter: What if I told it to?

Scott: Right, and I’m like-

Peter: But it didn’t do it automatically.

Scott: I’m like, “If it has a server and a client component-

Peter: Mm-hmm

Scott: … you have to do the push.“

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: Or, “I can’t get it on the server end,” or vice versa, whatever. And okay, fine. If it kept doing that, that would be a problem.

Peter: Yep.

Scott: So yeah, there is a point where if it came down to it, I would say, “Okay, they’re, they’re sacrificing Claude for whatever else they’re doing.”

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: And then I would, I would probably try… I don’t like it-

Peter: So-

Scott: … OpenAI as a company.

Peter: Yeah. OpenAI is, they’re, they’re up there on the evil spectrum. Now, thing is, though, like- I saw, so I’m going through the Anthropic Claude Architect training. I don’t intend on taking the exam because, as we’ve mentioned, I don’t know if on this podcast, but we, it has a six-month duration if you take that certification. I was like, “Okay.” If I was looking to become a certified, you know, an AI architect somewhere, sure, I’m down.

Scott: See, I understand why Adam said a year, but I also was like, “That’s way too ambitious for AI.”

Peter: Yeah. But one of the things I learned was, like, you know, the claude.md file, that is authoritative. That is supposed to be the first thing that-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … it reads every time.

Scott: And a lot of times it doesn’t.

Peter: And it just ignores it.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: And I’m like, “Ha, well, that’s not cool.”

Scott: Right.

Peter: So if it’s, if they’re putting it out there, the claude.md file reads this and it’ll do everything, keep it concise and short, alter, you know, the ultra important points and stuff right here, and it’s ignoring them, that tells me the tool is really unreliable.

Scott: Yeah. I guess my question is, I haven’t used ChatGPT or Codex in long enough that I don’t remember if it constantly refers to its agents.md religiously. Like-

Peter: Well, that’s-

Scott: … is it any better?

Peter: Right, that’s the thing. But what I’m not concerned about is if it didn’t and it’s not supposed to, I’m okay with that. But if the documentation and the education and the training says, “This is what we do,” and it just ignores that, that’s not cool.

Scott: I think the purpose of agents.md is supposed to be the same as claude.md-

Peter: Mm-hmm

Scott: … which is you go read this, you know, whether it be the global one or… First read the global one, and then read the local ones. It’s supposed to daisy-chain. That’s my understanding.

Peter: And Claude is supposed to do that with every iteration over a prompt.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: So every time. And also, I was watching Nate Herk’s channel-

Scott: Well, or at least it’d be in session. It’s supposed to-

Peter: No, every time.

Scott: Okay.

Peter: ’Cause he said, he said on Nate Herk’s, um, a- analysis of it, I was watching the other-

Scott: Why is it Nate Hurt, by the way?

Peter: Herk.

Scott: Why does he hurt?

Peter: Why does he Herk? That, that’s-

Scott: Oh, hurt.

Peter: No, it’s Herk.

Scott: Oh.

Peter: H-E-R-K.

Scott: Okay, so he doesn’t hurt.

Peter: No, he Herks.

Scott: Okay, good.

Peter: Totally different.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: He said that it is reloading your entire session every iteration. So if you say, “Hello,” and ChatGPT says, “Hello,” and then you say, “Hello,” again, it’s gonna read, “Hello, hello, hello,” through the whole time.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: And your claude.md files.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: With every single session.

Scott: Here’s my question.

Peter: So they’re exponentially increasing in size.

Scott: Can’t they develop some kind of stateful sessions? Why does this have to be stateless? Why does everything have to be passed back and forth every time, and why has no one revisited this?

Peter: I don’t know.

Scott: Why can’t we have sessions, stateful sessions? Is it because-

Peter: I mean, they’re trying to accomplish that with memory, right?

Scott: Yeah, but that’s still, it’s still a stateless session, and so it has to pass all that back every time. I guess what I’m wondering is why, why can’t it remember that you’re in a specific session and just hold on to that information?

Peter: I don’t know.

Scott: I don’t, I don’t know, either.

Peter: It’s like it’s UDP. ([laughs])

Scott: Yeah, I guess that’s the problem, right? It’s all happening over HTTP.

Peter: But I don’t… No, I wasn’t th- I was joking. I was being facetious about the, the network infrastructure. I don’t think that’s actually the reason ’cause if I was typing that with a terminal, like logged in directly to the machine running a local model, that doesn’t have to run over HTTP.

Scott: Well, not to a local model. Right. I don’t know. I should research that.

Peter: Well, ’cause-

Scott: But I think they have-

Peter: You can have, you can have stateful protocols running on top of HTTP.

Scott: You can.

Peter: Right.

Scott: I guess… Yeah, I guess what I’m wondering is why they don’t, why they don’t have a session, a real session.

Peter: Mm-hmm.

Scott: I don’t know. I’ll have to research it. Presumably, these people are a lot smarter than I am, regardless of the fact that Anthropic can’t write software, according to Theo, and I kind of believe him, honestly. Dude, they shipped… So I like the Claude Code that’s in the Mac app, that’s in the desktop app-

Peter: Yep

Scott: … but it definitely is buggy. Like, if you use their dictation, it would put it into… You could have split-pane sessions. It would put it into all those sessions that were open, and they did fix that finally, but it’s like, it does seem like they don’t test the code that they ship.

Peter: Mm-mm. Mm. It’s just they are definitely rushing stuff out the door-

Scott: Yeah. Yeah

Peter: … it’s like crazy.

Scott: Yep.

Peter: And, you know, I know I’m seeing that with, like, the flurry of new vendors every week with a new AI-based something.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: What everyone’s just like… And, and that’s the thing that we’ve talked about in the software industry now for decades, is just, like, rush to features, features, features, not stability and reliability.

Scott: Peter, speaking of reliable.

Peter: Scott Willsey.

Scott: I know, and I’ve finished mine, and I’ve… I’m not… Look, you can look at this two ways. One, Scott Willsey is a glutton. Two, Peter is slow.

Peter: Hey, I may be slow, but-

Scott: Scott Willsey is a glutton

Peter: … I can run a half-marathon in under two hours.

Scott: ([laughs]) He’s slow, Scott Willsey is a glutton.

Peter: I may be slow, but he’s a glutton.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah.

Peter: So-

Scott: I will say-

Peter: I think that’s a, that’s a good ep- I think we can, we can cap the episode on that point right there

Scott: Me being a glutton?

Peter: I’m slow and you’re a glutton.

Scott: I will say this. I understand a lot of the negatives. AI is a weird topic because people either think that you are AI-filled and you don’t see the negatives and the downsides. You know, it’s e- it’s extremism. Like, you can’t talk about AI without people thinking that, “Oh, you must love everything about AI. You believe in AI even though it’s stupid,” blah, blah, blah. I can tell from a lot of the people who critique AI, they would be more valid if they actually knew what AI was like.

Peter: If they used the things they are.

Scott: Yeah, because a lot of their arguments are just dumb-

Peter: Mm-hmm

Scott: … or they don’t apply except to, like, the free ChatGPT or whatever. Having said that, what they don’t understand is that just because we use AI doesn’t mean we don’t understand the problems with, A, the companies, and the fact that it requires so much to build these models. We do. We understand.

Peter: We do.

Scott: Um, but anyway, but there is real value to be had, and I think a lot of people don’t understand that there is value to be had. They can do things.

Peter: They can. I wish that it didn’t, you know, like, require, like, a whole power plant to run these stupid things, but-

Scott: But the problem is, is that I’m actually a little unclear on how bad it is. It is bad-

Peter: Yeah

Scott: … but we do a lot of other things on a continuous basis-

Peter: It’s bad

Scott: … that are also just as bad, if not worse. I’m not saying we should… I’m not… And that does sound like whataboutism-

Peter: ([clears throat]) Yes

Scott: … but what I’m saying is I am interested in understanding the true-

Peter: Ugh

Scott: … scale of, like, how bad it is compared to other things.

Peter: Yep. I agree. We do a lot of other things that are bad.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Like wireless chargers.

Scott: Yes. Yes.

Peter: But it’s a quality-of-life and, you know-

Scott: Very convenient

Peter: … enhancement, so we do it. Yeah. We also like to drive cars.

Scott: I don’t like to drive cars. I used to love to drive cars.

Peter: We as a society like to drive cars. ([laughs])

Scott: You know what’s funny? Ever since I got the hybrid-

Peter: And it’s not good for the environment

Scott: … ever since I got the hybrid, I drive like a grandpa ’cause I’m always looking at my eco mode. I wanna get… I wanna be as much on battery as possible.

Peter: Yep.

Scott: I wanna get the highest mileage possible.

Peter: Yep. I’m- I try to get as much out of my EV as, as possible too, so I get that.

Scott: Every now and then I bust back into binary throttle mode. It’s either on or off. ([laughs]) Very rarely.

Peter: Binary throttle mode.

Scott: Yes.

Peter: You heard it here first.

Scott: Yep. All right.

Peter: Oh.

Scott: Let’s probably wrap this up so I can go wash my hands, and so-

Peter: But we-

Scott: … we can order more beer.

Peter: I think we should. So dear listener, if you wanna see, I guess maybe we’re gonna cut it here-

Scott: Yep

Peter: … but we’ll have an after show where we’ll drink more beer.

Scott: We will, yeah.

Peter: Only for our paying subscribers.

Scott: Actually, that’s a good… This is the time to launch Patreon.

Peter: And look at this. This is, like, a set of, like, wind chimes. They’re not wind chimes.

Scott: We’re doing okay. He’s not doing very well.

Peter: I’m, I think I’m doing, I’m- See which one you like the least?

Scott: People are very similar.

Peter: Yeah, that’s- ([laughs])

Scott: See, I drank the, I drank that one the first ’cause I liked it the least and I wanted to savor the other ones.

Peter: Yes. ([laughs]) You’re taking that away.

Scott: Okay.

Peter: Would you like another pour of something? Yes, but-

Scott: Do you know what-

Peter: … I don’t know what yet

Scott: … I think I better go with the light one because-

Peter: Go for light… go for light?

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Yeah? Awesome.

Scott: Otherwise I’m gonna-

Peter: That’s only, that’s what? 4.5%?

Scott: Yeah, otherwise I’m gonna fall down and hurt myself. I love-

Peter: There’s no more

Scott: … I liked this one too, the dark, um-

Peter: But fake Guinness is, is only like 4.5

Scott: … some seaport.

Peter: The seaport? Yeah.

Scott: It’s really good.

Peter: We got those in four-pack cans in case you wanna take some home. Do you? And then of course we have the UFO White.

Scott: We do.

Peter: It’s one of our flagships. You can’t take it home.

Scott: I’ll take this home, yes. I do.

Peter: I can take it home, you can’t. Oh, well, you could check it in your bag. That’s right.

Scott: We can take it back to the Airbnb.

Peter: Yeah, I know-

Scott: Yeah, we’re-

Peter: … but you can’t, but you can’t take it to Portland-

Scott: No, I can’t

Peter: … but you could check it. You could check it though.

Scott: I could check it.

Peter: You could check, so you could take it home.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Well, you could drink them tonight. ([laughs])

Scott: That is true, yeah. That is true.

Peter: That’s why Peter and Scott never were heard from again.

Scott: Yeah. We never-

Peter: Ever

Scott: … we never worked again.

Peter: So yeah, maybe we will release the second round ([laughs]) as a subscriber-only-

Scott: Yeah

Peter: … paid-only feature, so if you’re willing-

Scott: Patreons

Peter: … to see what happens.

Scott: On Patreon.

Peter: Patreons. ([laughs]) General Patreons. General Patriots. ([laughs])

Scott: My God. Wait, is he the guy that cheated with the reporter? ([laughs]) Oh, my God.

Peter: You remember, we podcasted about that. That was on, I think Speeding in Reverse. It was on… Anyway.

Scott: It was a long time ago.

Peter: Anyway, dear listener, if you don’t wanna pay us, well, it’s fine. Be that way.

Scott: You’re not alone.

Peter: Be that way.

Scott: Yeah, you’re not alone.

Peter: But you can still find us at friendswithbrews.com, and from there you have links to all of our other endeavors. Scott’s at scottwillsey.com.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Saw66.com.

Scott: Yep. No, not anymore.

Peter: No, not anymore.

Scott: Um-

Peter: Not anymore. Take this.

Scott: Oh, thank you. And Kim is at Kim Hartung Brewing.

Peter: You can find Kim at, ([laughs]) at Kim Hartung Brewing. Hartung. There it is.

Scott: Hartung Brewing.

Peter: ([laughs]) In Windsor, Vermont. You can find me at nikolaidis.com, peterdoesyoga.com, peterdrinkscoffee.com-

Scott: Yep

Peter: … peterruns.com.

Scott: Peterruns whiledrinkingyoga@coffee.com. ([laughs])

Peter: I haven’t done peterdoessecurity.com, but I might have to do that-

Scott: It’s lit

Peter: … at some point.

Scott: Yeah.

Peter: Anyway, so that’s where you can find both of us, and until then, would you do the honors of… I, I started us off, so would you walk around and push the big red button?

Scott: Tell your friends.

Peter: Tell your friends.

Scott: I have to go wash my hands anyway.

Peter: Don’t touch my camera