Episode 2 – Things
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Friends with beer!
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(modem sound)
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Peter of Nikolades! Scott of wisely.
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Yes, very wisely.
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I already opened my beer so I can’t do a beer cracking sound.
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Oh, well, you know what?
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Last week I had already opened my beer so this time buddy.
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Nice.
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It’s my turn.
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I have to say that on the beer sides episode, I don’t know if you listen to our podcast
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or not, but on the beer sides episode, I did make a very satisfying
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beer cracking open sound.
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Yeah, I was kind of disappointed.
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That’s why I waited this time, even though it got a little warm.
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But your sound is better because that’s a bottle and that’s way more satisfying.
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Indeed. So what are you drinking today, Scott?
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I am drinking a rogue, Kolsch style honeybee ale.
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Sweet. That sounds good.
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Yeah. And it’s less calories than that other one.
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And that’s good, too.
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It’s about 144, 145 calories for 12 ounces.
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So that’s easy to work into a dietary budget.
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And there you go.
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I am drinking Victory’s seasonal favorites Summer Love Golden Ale.
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It’s 5.2% alcohol.
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So about 150 calories for a 12 ounceer.
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That’s not bad.
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Yeah, I’ve never had this beer before, and I’ve had their Victory
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Monkey, Golden Monkey, which is a Belgian style, which is pretty darn good.
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You know, it’s 9% 9 and a half percent. I would buy that just for the name. Oh, yeah, it’s good
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It’s it’s a good beer too. It’s comparable to like three philosophers
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But I decided that I wanted to try to do a new beer
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I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to do a new beer every single episode, but I thought it was worth a try
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So I bought a new one today if you’re not gonna get a new beer every episode
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I don’t want to drink with someone that’s selfish. Well, I just took my first sip of
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Summer love and it’s pretty good. Does it make you love summer? It is pretty good. Love at first sip
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Are you is this summer love thing? Is this becoming a romance podcast?
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Can we just introduce ourselves and move on hmm, I think we already did I’m Scott I’m Peter. Yeah, okay good
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So what are we talking about this week? Good talk
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We got some feedback from Vic did we
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from who
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From Vic Hudson.
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Who’s that?
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He is a person.
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And he thinks that you and I have good chemistry, which I think he’s talking about the beer. Whoever mixed the beers did a really good job. Whoever brewed these.
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Indeed.
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He wanted to correct me. He doesn’t have problems with domains like friendswith.beer.
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He does not like the cutesy ones where they split a word with the period like.
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Oh. Him and I were doing a Hugo theme and we’re calling it Empire.
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And I had Empire for Hugo the dot me, which the dot me means theme.
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He didn’t like that. And I get that. I understand that.
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So he would not have liked it if we were friends with B dot er.
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Right. If there was such thing. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
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And I understand that. I get that.
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I get that more than not liking friends with that beer, because to me,
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If you can’t remember friends with that beer, my God, you’ve probably been drinking too many beers.
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I tell you, as clever as you want and as as relevant and descriptive as these new TLDs like
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dot beer are, I still say friends with beer dot com, because that’s what people are used to.
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That’s what you say. But they are selling all these TLDs and people are buying them.
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People have to learn to change. Like I…
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People don’t like to learn to change.
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People were also used to pagers, but somehow they got over that.
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Um, one of my largest clients still sells pagers.
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Well, your largest client is a dick.
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And the other of my largest clients is
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still making heavy use of pagers. Hmm.
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Well, as Nate would say, what the f---‘s going on?
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Yeah, sure.
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I have Ted Lasso clips because we’re going to start doing Ted Lasso on
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on BubbleSort TV.
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Oh excellent.
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I did just watch it.
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I binged Ted Lasso.
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You should everyone should binge Ted Lasso.
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After I binged See.
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Yeah, it was fun.
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Z what’s Z?
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See. S E E.
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Oh OK.
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It’s the one with Jason Momoa.
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Not that many people like that.
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What did you think of it?
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I enjoyed it.
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I liked it.
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Frankly, I liked it better than Ted Lasso.
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Although it was enjoyable.
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No, I liked it.
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It’s Ted Lasso was fine,
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but I prefer action adventure.
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But you gotta remember so
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This came in the midst of the effing pandemic and the year that was 2020.
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It was a bright spot.
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It was a non cynical bright spot in a year full of people.
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I think that had a lot to do with it, which has me a little bit concerned
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about season two, because I’m not really sure how they can improve upon it
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because the timing is different.
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And also, I feel like the story arc was complete with one season.
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Yeah, no, I agree.
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No, I’m not. Don’t get me wrong.
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I don’t I’m not saying I don’t like it. It’s just like if your favorite food in the world
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What’s your favorite food in the world Scott?
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Lots of different Japanese foods. Okay, like but just if you had
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Yeah, I won’t do the cliche of like oh if you had one food that you could eat for the rest of your life
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But like what would you say is your favorite dish? Just pick some it doesn’t have to be even accurate
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I love me some good nigiri sushi if I could only pick one I would probably go with that but then okay
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don’t overthink it. Okay, so nigiri sushi is your favorite food. And now what do you think of beef
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lo mein? I mean it’s not bad. Okay, it’s not bad. Now what if I gave you the world’s best cup of
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beef lo mein? You’re gonna say, okay, yeah, for beef lo mein it’s still pretty good, but wouldn’t
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you rather have some really, really epic nigiri sushi? That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, I get it,
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But I just don’t buy the comparison of C to good nigiri sushi, I guess where I’m going. I just don’t I
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but what so so the comparison is you like a certain thing and I like a certain thing and
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Your certain thing is a genre of food
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My certain thing is a genre of TV or movies and when you take me out of that certain thing
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I’m not going to feel as strongly about the thing that you like as much
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So in yeah, I’m different I guess because I don’t normally like
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comedies along the teleso lines and I don’t normally like
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Ripoffs of plots like that plot of them came right out of Major League the movie. Mm-hmm
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But I was blown away like I was just surprised by it. I it wasn’t what I expected
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It didn’t go where I expected and I enjoyed it
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I did not expect it to be the type of thing that I would like and it’s not the genre that I like the most
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either by far. Yeah. No, and don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed it. I watched every
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episode and I looked forward to it. So I did enjoy it. It’s just if I’m gonna sit
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down and watch TV, that’s not the genre that I would normally sit down and
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subscribe to. No, I agree. I just, although there are certain things that I
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gravitate towards more, I’ve had enough examples of things outside those being
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better than some of the stuff inside that I thought I’d prefer more that I
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I really don’t use that as a criteria anymore.
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Mm-hmm.
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Fair enough.
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Anyway, so I would say yes, go ahead, watch Ted Lasso.
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I definitely, I would give it a thumbs up.
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I would not say subscribe to Apple TV+ just so you can watch it, but if you have it, then
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you’ve got it.
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Go buy a super expensive Apple device and you can get a trial of Apple TV+ for free.
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It’s totally worth it.
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You can save five bucks a month by spending $1,000.
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Perfect.
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That makes sense.
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Do the math.
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math. Do the math. What else we got? Well let’s just skip over the part where I
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called you guys both domain name losers. How’s your beer? My beer is really
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good. It’s quite good. It’s very light. It’s very good for summer. It’s yeah very
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good. I like this beer a lot. This is a good one. My wife will drink these. She
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likes these. She is definitely not a dark beer drinker and she’s not… she hardly
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drinks beer at all but she does like this one quite a bit. Well there you go.
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All right, so last time I was I had concerns about people like Lex Fridman and Friedman I guess and
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more so Ham Sarah Ham Sarah’s more so Ham Sarah’s Peter
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Ham Sarah’s has some concerns. Yes. Sure. I’ve only had two glasses of beer and absolutely no ham
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but anyway, so I was a little let down by Lex with his
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apparent hero worship of guys like Sam Harris, but
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YouTube kept recommending him to me even after I unsubscribed and
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I saw that he has a really amazing interview with a woman named Yeonmi Park
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She was a North Korean
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She escaped through
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Somehow she wound up in China. I haven’t read her book
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I have read a fascinating book about a very similar escape of a woman from North Korea
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Then she finally escaped South Korea, but she talks about how when you’re living in North Korea
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You are so isolated that it is like living in a different universe and when you get out of there
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It’s like you were dumped on another planet and you have to learn how this planet functions and what are these aliens and that?
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Many of the things that you’ve believed your entire life are wrong and it’s really fascinating interview
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Hmm, so good for him good for her
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Alright, I have not watched
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that but
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Have been listening some interesting podcasts lately a bunch actually, right?
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And watching some interesting TED talks and stuff on YouTube Ted lasso tops know Ted X talks, but not Ted L talks
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but I did as of today my
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latest and last class in my bachelor’s in IS begins today my final class and
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I have done all
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Except the final week seven assignments. What is is is that iguana sharing integrated studies?
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Oh, I just say is because then people normally figure information security or information systems
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I actually did think it was information security. Yep, but it’s not
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Yeah, so the class starts today and I spent most of the weekend doing the homework and
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yeah, pretty much finished a seven week accelerated course in the
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Over the span of a weekend and not even the whole weekend really was about a day
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So what you’re saying is this course is useless because it’s so easy that anyone can do it even a caveman
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No, no, I’m starting to think that this is one of those cases where my prior experience
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Has very well prepared me for this course
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Hmm, but I mean that said it is a walk in the park compared to the last class that I just took so yeah
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But no, it’s it’s it’s interesting. It’s useful, but it really just reaffirms that
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that I already know a lot about this stuff.
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And frankly, a lot of what I’ve learned about it
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has come from podcasts.
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What is this stuff that you know a lot about?
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Explain this integration thing to me.
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This class is management.
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This is a class in management
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and managing organizational change.
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So lots of concepts, topics about, say, personality types
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and stereotypes, communication patterns,
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how people self-organize, how to perform change, what motivates folks, lots of different things
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like that. All concepts with pretty much, I haven’t learned anything really new in this
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class at all. I’ve learned a few names for some things, but I haven’t learned like, “Oh,
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I had no idea that people had motivational factors that caused them to do things. Wow,
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that’s fascinating.” Not a complete waste of time like some of my classes have been
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for sure.
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I’ve known for decades that people have motivational factors.
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I see it all the time at work.
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And I am amazed at what sometimes people will cite as their motivational factors.
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Like when because I’m changing groups, we were trying to backfill my position.
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Normally there’s way more people like if we have one position open
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for the job I was just doing, there will be like seven or eight people
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easy applying for it, right?
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People from our group.
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Nobody from our group wanted it.
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And one of the other guys who does my job,
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same job, was talking to some of his people, and he was like,
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”What’s going on?”
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And they’re like, “We don’t want to do more work for the same pay.”
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Well, first of all, it’s not the same pay eventually.
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You can get promoted to higher grade levels.
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And then secondly, we have more freedom than they do.
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Like they sit at a stupid command center watching equipment run all day long and responding to stupid, stupid, stupid equipment failures that would drive me insane.
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They’re just like a bunch of like operators or something.
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That’s exactly what they are.
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Right.
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And what I’m thinking is, look, if you’re going to be there for 12 hours a day and you’re going to get paid X amount of money,
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Why not enjoy yourself as much as you can and have freedom and be able to run around and do a variety of things and not sit there in one place all day?
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Even if the pay is the same, why would you not do that? It does-it makes no sense to me. It’s not like my job is stressful.
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Yeah, there’s days where I’m annoyed or stressed, but when I come home, I forget about it. It’s not—
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I don’t-I don’t know. It’s-it’s weird. So people’s motivation-when people tell me that,
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Well, I get paid to be here, so it doesn’t matter how boring it is.
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I can’t understand that, Peter.
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Like, I cannot understand being willing to be bored at work for any amount of money.
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It’s your life. It’s your precious minutes ticking away.
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Some people are different, dude.
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That’s all I got for you.
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I don’t get it.
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Can how do you turn your brain off?
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Your curious brain that wants to know things? How do things work?
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How can I fix this problem?
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Blah, blah, blah.
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Everybody has that.
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Why did their parents hate them?
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Did they drop them on their heads?
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It’s an evolutionary thing, dude.
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Everybody’s different. Keep telling you that.
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Everyone has that when they’re a child.
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All children are curious.
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Yeah, it’s how they learn how to be a human being, Peter.
00:14:30.920 —> 00:14:32.600
Not everyone does.
00:14:32.600 —> 00:14:34.260
Some people are not circus.
00:14:34.260 —> 00:14:36.340
Some people are, quote unquote, broken.
00:14:36.340 —> 00:14:37.180
I know. I don’t believe that.
00:14:37.180 —> 00:14:38.940
I believe the schools beat it out of people.
00:14:38.940 —> 00:14:42.280
I believe that as they grow up, they lose that.
00:14:42.280 —> 00:14:46.100
All children have that or they wouldn’t learn how to be human beings.
00:14:46.100 —> 00:14:49.820
They have so much to absorb into their little sponge brains
00:14:49.820 —> 00:14:54.420
that all children, all infants, all toddlers have that curiosity.
00:14:54.420 —> 00:14:57.580
And then eventually it goes away.
00:14:57.580 —> 00:15:02.080
But I don’t understand grown adults who haven’t at least tried to remember
00:15:02.080 —> 00:15:04.620
what that’s like at all. I just don’t get it.
00:15:04.620 —> 00:15:08.880
And we didn’t even have that talk planned, but that felt good.
00:15:08.880 —> 00:15:13.180
I’m glad you feel good.
00:15:13.180 —> 00:15:17.620
So anyway, tell me about the podcast that we never talked about
00:15:17.620 —> 00:15:23.300
that you were listening to that helped reaffirm your knowledge of change, management change,
00:15:23.300 —> 00:15:24.300
and organizational change?
00:15:24.300 —> 00:15:26.660
Well, it was really kind of funny.
00:15:26.660 —> 00:15:32.300
So one of the podcasts I listen to a lot is the Jordan Harbinger show, because he’s got
00:15:32.300 —> 00:15:37.300
just it’s just one interview after another, and he’s got some really good ones.
00:15:37.300 —> 00:15:47.100
As it happens, one of the lectures for one of the assignments in this class that I took
00:15:47.100 —> 00:15:51.620
slash am taking, uh, was by Daniel Pink. He’s, um,
00:15:51.620 —> 00:15:54.140
written, uh, I guess several books at this point.
00:15:54.140 —> 00:15:57.900
The one you might’ve heard of is, hang on a second. I forget the title.
00:15:57.900 —> 00:16:03.140
One moment. Standing by. Standing by with beer. Thank you.
00:16:03.140 —> 00:16:06.500
With beer to sell is human. That was his book.
00:16:06.500 —> 00:16:12.220
So he’s one of the Ted talks they cite as a lecture in this class.
00:16:12.220 —> 00:16:14.060
As it happens,
00:16:14.060 —> 00:16:18.560
I watched his video and then as I was getting ready for bed, I was like, okay,
00:16:18.560 —> 00:16:21.860
what’s next on my podcast queue was his interview,
00:16:21.860 —> 00:16:23.920
which was one that was done a few years ago.
00:16:23.920 —> 00:16:27.760
Now on the Jordan Harbinger show was like a best of episode just happens to be
00:16:27.760 —> 00:16:32.020
like coming up in my queue, which I thought was hilarious. Amazing timing.
00:16:32.020 —> 00:16:36.760
But yeah, Jordan Harbinger show, really good podcast, really good interviews.
00:16:36.760 —> 00:16:41.100
But I thought that was pretty amazing because I love when the podcast that I
00:16:41.100 —> 00:16:43.820
listen to are directly relevant to my course material.
00:16:43.820 —> 00:16:54.820
Another similar thing happened a few weeks ago when I was doing my final research project on critical thinking and why people are resistant to the COVID-19 vaccine.
00:16:54.820 —> 00:17:06.820
And then I just happened to stumble across Rob Reed being interviewed also on the Jardin Harminger and on Sam Harris’s podcast and on his own podcast After On, which is also very relevant.
00:17:06.820 —> 00:17:11.820
He was interviewed on his own podcast? Oh, he probably played one of those interviews on his own podcast.
00:17:11.820 —> 00:17:17.820
Well, there were three different podcasts. There was his, there was Sam Harris’s, and there was Jordan Harbinger.
00:17:17.820 —> 00:17:23.820
And each one was over an hour long, but there was a lot of material that was overlapping between them.
00:17:23.820 —> 00:17:24.820
You don’t say.
00:17:24.820 —> 00:17:32.820
I do. They’re all excellent. So that was good. And then I also shared with you, Eighth Layer Security, that podcast.
00:17:32.820 —> 00:17:39.820
And it was, I think it was the second episode, was geared all around echo chambers and filter bubbles and stuff.
00:17:39.820 —> 00:17:43.220
and stuff, and again, directly related to the topic of my research.
00:17:43.220 —> 00:17:48.180
So, yeah, and that podcast is ostensibly a security podcast.
00:17:48.180 —> 00:17:49.420
And indeed, it is. Right.
00:17:49.420 —> 00:17:54.280
It goes deep into human psychology and why we believe the that we do.
00:17:54.280 —> 00:17:59.680
And mm hmm. And just the whole human experience, like you always have to remember
00:17:59.680 —> 00:18:04.360
the fact that everything you know or think you know was handed to you by other people
00:18:04.360 —> 00:18:06.680
and therefore has to be suspect.
00:18:06.680 —> 00:18:08.520
And they don’t say it exactly like that,
00:18:08.520 —> 00:18:11.860
but they do talk about how we absorb stuff and what do they call them?
00:18:11.860 —> 00:18:13.100
Trojan horses for the mind.
00:18:13.100 —> 00:18:17.740
Now, when I talk about mind viruses a lot, and those can be good or bad,
00:18:17.740 —> 00:18:21.840
but most ideas are viruses of a kind because they’re given to us
00:18:21.840 —> 00:18:26.540
by people who have some motivation for us to agree with their idea
00:18:26.540 —> 00:18:28.680
and they want us to believe them.
00:18:28.680 —> 00:18:30.380
And it’s a virus.
00:18:30.380 —> 00:18:33.080
It either infects us and we believe the idea or it doesn’t.
00:18:33.080 —> 00:18:36.880
That analogy doesn’t work for all ideas, but it certainly works
00:18:36.880 —> 00:18:41.880
for philosophical and/or dogmatic ideas?
00:18:41.880 —> 00:18:47.000
So something that I took away from my previous class,
00:18:47.000 —> 00:18:52.880
the one that was not something that I finished in a weekend,
00:18:52.880 —> 00:18:56.380
was the Elements of Thought.
00:18:56.380 —> 00:18:58.160
And this was a class on critical thinking
00:18:58.160 —> 00:19:00.200
called Critical Inquiry.
00:19:00.200 —> 00:19:02.100
And what you’re describing now is like, you know,
00:19:02.100 —> 00:19:04.460
everything you have is handed to you by someone else.
00:19:04.460 —> 00:19:07.660
And like right off the bat, well, the first element, well,
00:19:07.660 —> 00:19:10.540
they’re not really necessarily in order, but the way it’s presented,
00:19:10.540 —> 00:19:15.020
the first element of thought is point of view. And you know,
00:19:15.020 —> 00:19:19.120
so you got to factor in that whenever you’re having a discussion or an argument
00:19:19.120 —> 00:19:21.100
or analyzing something,
00:19:21.100 —> 00:19:26.540
people’s point of view comes into play and it’s something that you have to be,
00:19:26.540 —> 00:19:28.540
you know, you have to give some consideration to that.
00:19:28.540 —> 00:19:31.640
So we’ll put a link in the show notes,
00:19:31.640 —> 00:19:33.480
but if you’re interested in the elements of thought, well,
00:19:33.480 —> 00:19:36.520
You can also find it right at theelementsoffhought.org.
00:19:36.520 —> 00:19:39.760
But they are really quickly their point of view, purpose,
00:19:39.760 —> 00:19:42.680
the question at issue, information,
00:19:42.680 —> 00:19:46.120
interpretation and inference, concepts,
00:19:46.120 —> 00:19:49.740
assumptions, and implications and consequences.
00:19:49.740 —> 00:19:54.560
And all of these, when you start to consider them
00:19:54.560 —> 00:19:59.560
in any sort of discussion or argument or topic,
00:19:59.560 —> 00:20:04.560
you see how they really affect one’s perspective on things.
00:20:04.560 —> 00:20:09.080
So yeah, it’s interesting stuff.
00:20:09.080 —> 00:20:11.240
It sounds cynical when we say things like this,
00:20:11.240 —> 00:20:13.120
but the truth of the matter is,
00:20:13.120 —> 00:20:15.400
this is just how human minds function.
00:20:15.400 —> 00:20:18.560
But as “Eighth Layer Insights” podcast talks about,
00:20:18.560 —> 00:20:21.040
humans relate to story,
00:20:21.040 —> 00:20:25.020
and we can get people to believe our ideas
00:20:25.020 —> 00:20:28.120
if we present them with a story that they can understand
00:20:28.120 —> 00:20:30.280
that is attractive to their mind.
00:20:30.280 —> 00:20:32.400
A compelling narrative, if you will.
00:20:32.400 —> 00:20:34.980
A compelling narrative, if you will.
00:20:34.980 —> 00:20:38.260
And that doesn’t necessarily mean that the story is true or false, it just means that
00:20:38.260 —> 00:20:43.160
humans are built to receive knowledge through that kind of story.
00:20:43.160 —> 00:20:44.620
Correct.
00:20:44.620 —> 00:20:49.440
Human beings basically use tactics to infect each other with their ideas, and again, that
00:20:49.440 —> 00:20:51.420
is intent neutral.
00:20:51.420 —> 00:20:52.420
It’s just the way it works.
00:20:52.420 —> 00:20:54.860
Now, it’s used by people with all kinds of intentions.
00:20:54.860 —> 00:21:02.220
from Russian propagandists or, you know, whatever, to people who are trying to make sure that
00:21:02.220 —> 00:21:04.700
you live through your childhood.
00:21:04.700 —> 00:21:05.700
Yup.
00:21:05.700 —> 00:21:11.040
So, it’s just how we work, but you have to be aware that that’s how humans work.
00:21:11.040 —> 00:21:12.700
You have to be aware that that’s how you work.
00:21:12.700 —> 00:21:13.700
Yes.
00:21:13.700 —> 00:21:19.060
And it doesn’t mean be suspicious and be afraid and don’t take on ideas and be upset
00:21:19.060 —> 00:21:23.100
that you’re a human being and your brain works that way, your lizard brain or whatever, but…
00:21:23.100 —> 00:21:25.500
Be aware though, that’s the way, you know,
00:21:25.500 —> 00:21:29.040
just like the book by Daniel Pink on selling, right?
00:21:29.040 —> 00:21:32.580
As he’s being introduced in the podcast, you know,
00:21:32.580 —> 00:21:34.740
Jordan is introducing the saying like, you know,
00:21:34.740 —> 00:21:38.540
you can, whether you’re in sales or not,
00:21:38.540 —> 00:21:40.900
you need to be aware of these things.
00:21:40.900 —> 00:21:43.440
Because even if you don’t use these techniques
00:21:43.440 —> 00:21:45.980
and these tactics, you should be able to recognize
00:21:45.980 —> 00:21:47.960
when they’re being used against you.
00:21:47.960 —> 00:21:52.200
Yeah, and I gotta say, this might offend some people,
00:21:52.200 —> 00:21:53.200
but…
00:21:53.200 —> 00:21:55.700
It won’t be the first time.
00:21:55.700 —> 00:22:03.240
Certain beliefs that I was brought up with, people who are in those belief systems often
00:22:03.240 —> 00:22:05.700
become salesmen of a type.
00:22:05.700 —> 00:22:11.880
And you can see that, or you get a feeling that sometimes people don’t see each other
00:22:11.880 —> 00:22:13.580
as human beings to be understood.
00:22:13.580 —> 00:22:17.900
They see each other as people to be converted to my point of view.
00:22:17.900 —> 00:22:18.900
Yes.
00:22:18.900 —> 00:22:25.300
I am transparently being a salesman and I have no genuine interest in this person beyond the fact that I think that they need to
00:22:25.300 —> 00:22:28.880
Know my point of view so that they don’t go to hell or whatever
00:22:28.880 —> 00:22:33.940
Sure, insert your whatever the bad thing is if they don’t understand your point of view here. Mm-hmm and
00:22:33.940 —> 00:22:40.460
I hate that man. I hate that. The good news is if we can’t convert them we can just kill them. Well, that’s true
00:22:40.460 —> 00:22:43.020
Can we? Well, I mean you and I?
00:22:43.420 —> 00:22:47.420
You and I, I mean, I suppose we could. We might get in trouble.
00:22:47.420 —> 00:22:51.420
Well, that’s what I’m wondering. Like, should we… if we form a country…
00:22:51.420 —> 00:22:54.420
What could we call it? Something that rhymes with North Korea.
00:22:54.420 —> 00:22:56.420
How about Scott and Peterville?
00:22:56.420 —> 00:23:00.420
”Ville”? That sounds like a town, not a country.
00:23:00.420 —> 00:23:03.420
Well, I mean, we gotta start small. We can expand.
00:23:03.420 —> 00:23:08.420
Okay. All right. So we’re gonna start with a village and work our way up to a…
00:23:08.420 —> 00:23:10.420
It takes a village.
00:23:10.420 —> 00:23:14.460
It takes a village to raise a bunch of imprisoned mind controlled people.
00:23:14.460 —> 00:23:15.400
That what you’re saying?
00:23:15.400 —> 00:23:17.500
Right. That’s exactly what I said.
00:23:17.500 —> 00:23:23.360
So in a, in lighter news.
00:23:23.360 —> 00:23:25.260
Lighter news, lighter beer.
00:23:25.260 —> 00:23:29.720
You and I have for years now,
00:23:29.720 —> 00:23:33.260
like more than 10 years being users of, and I mean,
00:23:33.260 —> 00:23:36.520
heavy users of a program,
00:23:36.520 —> 00:23:39.800
a software program and service called Evernote.
00:23:40.020 —> 00:23:42.020
Oh good, when you said for years, you and I,
00:23:42.020 —> 00:23:44.580
I was afraid you were gonna reveal some things to the listener
00:23:44.580 —> 00:23:46.720
we were trying to keep secret.
00:23:46.720 —> 00:23:49.540
Yeah, because I’m smart enough to reveal
00:23:49.540 —> 00:23:52.680
all those secrets that you and I keep on a podcast.
00:23:52.680 —> 00:23:55.860
So back to Evernote.
00:23:55.860 —> 00:23:59.180
Now I’m still using Evernote.
00:23:59.180 —> 00:24:02.140
I have been a paid subscriber for years now.
00:24:02.140 —> 00:24:03.220
As was I, yes.
00:24:03.220 —> 00:24:04.500
Pay me a premium.
00:24:04.500 —> 00:24:05.620
Pay me a, that’s right.
00:24:05.620 —> 00:24:09.700
I did dabble with OneNote trying to convert over
00:24:09.700 —> 00:24:11.940
and I really didn’t like it.
00:24:11.940 —> 00:24:16.300
But for years, I remember people, friends,
00:24:16.300 —> 00:24:19.020
acquaintances of ours would say things to you like-
00:24:19.020 —> 00:24:20.580
Those were no friends, Peter.
00:24:20.580 —> 00:24:21.420
Just use notes.
00:24:21.420 —> 00:24:23.060
You can just use Apple Notes.
00:24:23.060 —> 00:24:24.020
You can do that every year.
00:24:24.020 —> 00:24:26.380
Why don’t you just use that for Evernote?
00:24:26.380 —> 00:24:29.020
And for years you would say like,
00:24:29.020 —> 00:24:31.220
dude, you just don’t get it.
00:24:31.220 —> 00:24:35.620
Evernote is way more than just notes, right?
00:24:35.620 —> 00:24:39.380
Right, ‘cause I use Evernote and I believe you do as well.
00:24:39.380 —> 00:24:41.360
It’s just a grand filing cabinet.
00:24:41.360 —> 00:24:42.200
Pretty much.
00:24:42.200 —> 00:24:44.020
I throw all kinds of stuff in there.
00:24:44.020 —> 00:24:44.860
Right.
00:24:44.860 —> 00:24:48.180
Audio files, PDFs, you name it.
00:24:48.180 —> 00:24:49.300
All kinds of stuff.
00:24:49.300 —> 00:24:50.140
I just.
00:24:50.140 —> 00:24:52.740
Text documents, receipts, whatever.
00:24:52.740 —> 00:24:56.860
Because unlike something like Dropbox or OneDrive,
00:24:56.860 —> 00:25:00.940
which has an upper limit on the amount of storage,
00:25:00.940 —> 00:25:04.260
Evernote only caps you on the amount of data
00:25:04.260 —> 00:25:07.400
you can shove into it over the course of a month.
00:25:07.400 —> 00:25:08.240
That’s right.
00:25:08.240 —> 00:25:13.920
you can have a million terabytes there if you can get it in there fast. It might take you time to
00:25:13.920 —> 00:25:18.640
get there, right? But you don’t have to ever worry, you know, you have to worry about the rate at
00:25:18.640 —> 00:25:23.360
which you’re capturing data, but you don’t have to worry about how much stuff you’re going to have,
00:25:23.360 —> 00:25:28.640
which is like, you know, with Dropbox and other things, I would always end up like stuffing more.
00:25:28.640 —> 00:25:32.400
Yeah, with those you could upload everything in one day, but you might hit your limit of stuff
00:25:32.400 —> 00:25:38.000
that you can add. Exactly. Plus, you know, they’re not note-taking apps, which Evernote is,
00:25:38.000 —> 00:25:41.360
And you know, I actually do use it to take notes,
00:25:41.360 —> 00:25:45.200
videos, voice memos, snapshots, filing cabinet, et cetera.
00:25:45.200 —> 00:25:46.040
Sure.
00:25:46.040 —> 00:25:47.780
But for me, Evernote has always just been like,
00:25:47.780 —> 00:25:49.440
it’s a nice big giant,
00:25:49.440 —> 00:25:52.700
there’s some structure to it,
00:25:52.700 —> 00:25:55.080
but I just like throw everything in Evernote.
00:25:55.080 —> 00:25:57.900
Like a lot of people I’m sure just do this with, you know,
00:25:57.900 —> 00:25:59.360
like a big folder on their hard,
00:25:59.360 —> 00:26:01.720
a lot of people’s hard drives is just this unstructured
00:26:01.720 —> 00:26:04.120
garbage mess thing, but they can never find anything.
00:26:04.120 —> 00:26:05.020
Yeah, most of the people at work,
00:26:05.020 —> 00:26:06.540
that’s called their desktop.
00:26:06.540 —> 00:26:07.520
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:07.520 —> 00:26:11.520
And of other people, it’s called their inbox, right?
00:26:11.520 —> 00:26:13.620
Or their downloads folder or whatever.
00:26:13.620 —> 00:26:20.440
Exactly. And now just the fact that, you know, the tone that you and I have taken on these people shows very clearly what you and I think of these people.
00:26:20.440 —> 00:26:23.120
Oh no, that should never be taken as representative help.
00:26:23.120 —> 00:26:28.360
No, no, we don’t have any sort of, we’re not looking down on you idiots at all.
00:26:28.680 —> 00:26:33.040
Anyway, but for years, and I mean years,
00:26:33.040 —> 00:26:35.580
I have been listening to you tell me
00:26:35.580 —> 00:26:38.000
how other people have been telling you,
00:26:38.000 —> 00:26:40.020
”Oh, you know, just use Apple Notes.
00:26:40.020 —> 00:26:41.720
Why are you using Evernote?”
00:26:41.720 —> 00:26:45.340
So much to my surprise.
00:26:45.340 —> 00:26:46.680
And mine.
00:26:46.680 —> 00:26:49.360
You’re now telling me how you’re just switching
00:26:49.360 —> 00:26:50.960
to Apple Notes from Evernote.
00:26:50.960 —> 00:26:53.040
So Scott, what happened?
00:26:53.040 —> 00:26:55.360
Well, first of all, slight correction.
00:26:55.360 —> 00:26:58.640
You haven’t just been listening to me for years tell you
00:26:58.640 —> 00:27:03.920
about these people. You’ve been for years listening to me be amazingly and extremely
00:27:03.920 —> 00:27:06.020
disgusted by those people.
00:27:06.020 —> 00:27:10.860
Yeah, oh absolutely. And I’m like, and I’m one of those. I’m like, I’m standing on the side like,
00:27:10.860 —> 00:27:17.820
yeah, no, you, you don’t understand. You think Evernote is just a giant cloud storage notepad,
00:27:17.820 —> 00:27:19.120
and it’s not.
00:27:19.120 —> 00:27:25.760
The thing that got me to revisit Apple Notes after a long period of time of not really paying attention to it.
00:27:25.760 —> 00:27:31.360
First of all, there’s a couple different things. One, a few years ago they did add some great
00:27:31.360 —> 00:27:37.440
capabilities to it, but it was ugly. They made the background that you could not change like a
00:27:37.440 —> 00:27:42.960
textured piece of paper and it made all the text fuzzy. It just was terrible. That was a downside,
00:27:42.960 —> 00:27:49.440
but the other thing was it just couldn’t hold all the different types of content that Evernote could
00:27:49.440 —> 00:27:54.640
at the time when I last looked at it. The other thing too is I had it in my brain that I needed
00:27:54.640 —> 00:27:57.940
something like Evernote which stores everything in the cloud and only
00:27:57.940 —> 00:28:02.260
downloads it when you need it because I have a lot of stuff in there and I
00:28:02.260 —> 00:28:06.820
thought there’s no way that I can have this on my devices. Now one of the things
00:28:06.820 —> 00:28:11.520
that has changed is the amount of storage on all my devices is getting
00:28:11.520 —> 00:28:17.320
larger and larger and larger. That is not a problem for me anymore and in fact
00:28:17.320 —> 00:28:21.040
when I made this transition I realized how little of that stuff I actually
00:28:21.040 —> 00:28:25.600
needed. I went through thousands of notes, dude, just to see what I actually needed
00:28:25.600 —> 00:28:29.400
to keep and what I could get rid of. I got rid of a lot of stuff that I thought
00:28:29.400 —> 00:28:34.000
seemed important but I never looked at again. So the things that made a
00:28:34.000 —> 00:28:38.160
difference for me is notes can now contain all the same types of content
00:28:38.160 —> 00:28:44.880
that Evernote can. Audio files, PDFs, notes, documents, web links, you name it and
00:28:44.880 —> 00:28:49.000
they’re easy to add as well. And that was another thing. My wife and I tried an app
00:28:49.000 —> 00:28:53.600
called Craft which is really popular. It sucked! We could not… first of all it’s
00:28:53.600 —> 00:29:00.520
got a weird interface / use case. My wife hated it. I kind of hated it and I was
00:29:00.520 —> 00:29:02.640
like you know what I’m not trying to sell her on this anymore because I can’t
00:29:02.640 —> 00:29:07.440
stand it either so we abandoned that. But what got me to go back to Notes again
00:29:07.440 —> 00:29:12.580
was iPad OS 15 because it has a thing called Quick Note where you swipe up
00:29:12.580 —> 00:29:15.720
from the bottom right corner of the screen with either your finger or your
00:29:15.720 —> 00:29:19.480
your pencil and it brings up a thing called Quick Note. And if you’re on a
00:29:19.480 —> 00:29:22.980
web page for example it’ll ask if you want to add a link. It’s kind of content
00:29:22.980 —> 00:29:27.360
aware. And also another cool thing about it is if you go to a web page that
00:29:27.360 —> 00:29:31.600
you’ve created a Quick Note from in the past it’ll show you down in the corner
00:29:31.600 —> 00:29:36.400
hovering over the Safari window it’ll show you “oh you’ve got a note on this” if
00:29:36.400 —> 00:29:40.180
you want to add more information about it which is pretty cool. But the texturing
00:29:40.180 —> 00:29:43.720
issues are all gone it’s just a freaking app now it doesn’t have a textured
00:29:43.720 —> 00:29:47.680
background, it can be dark mode or light mode, and it can hold all the different
00:29:47.680 —> 00:29:52.920
types of content that I need, and I can share folders with my wife, we can share
00:29:52.920 —> 00:29:58.600
stuff, and it doesn’t cost a dime, and it just works. It can actually replace
00:29:58.600 —> 00:30:04.560
Evernote for me now. It’s not that I was wrong before, it’s just that now, because
00:30:04.560 —> 00:30:08.560
of devices with more storage space and just everything at once
00:30:08.560 —> 00:30:12.160
came together and I was like, “Okay, I can actually do this now.”
00:30:12.160 —> 00:30:18.660
So in other news, do you think Apple will ever do a touchscreen Mac?
00:30:18.660 —> 00:30:29.660
I don’t know because so far they’ve steadfastly been against it. I guess against it is a hard thing to prove, but by their actions they’ve been steadfastly against it.
00:30:29.660 —> 00:30:34.160
Yeah, I mean we know they have the technology to do touch screens, right?
00:30:34.160 —> 00:30:37.660
And, you know, so I was going to say like, why wouldn’t they do it?
00:30:37.660 —> 00:30:42.300
The only thing I can think why they wouldn’t do it is
00:30:42.300 —> 00:30:46.260
because they wouldn’t want it to compete with the iPad for some reason,
00:30:46.260 —> 00:30:48.960
you know, or confuse their users or something.
00:30:48.960 —> 00:30:53.560
But I don’t you and I, you know, we probably don’t think that makes much sense.
00:30:53.560 —> 00:30:58.360
But I don’t know why, why they would not do a touch screen Mac.
00:30:58.360 —> 00:31:02.100
The only thing I can think of is that what actually makes sense
00:31:02.700 —> 00:31:08.460
because I’m not one of those people who thinks that, well, they shouldn’t do it because I believe in the status quo.
00:31:08.460 —> 00:31:13.900
I don’t believe in the status quo. The status quo is just something that arbitrarily somebody decided.
00:31:13.900 —> 00:31:19.500
And you can’t believe how many Apple fans will believe in the Apple status quo until Apple changes their minds and reverses position.
00:31:19.500 —> 00:31:23.460
And then all of a sudden those same people will be like, man, this makes total sense. This is amazing.
00:31:23.460 —> 00:31:25.140
Right click.
00:31:25.140 —> 00:31:34.460
What I do wonder is, is there something… Apple has, generally speaking, higher resolution screens on their computers than PC manufacturers.
00:31:34.460 —> 00:31:35.460
Mm-hmm.
00:31:35.460 —> 00:31:44.300
iMac, 5K, there’s no such really… Well, I mean, there are, but there’s nobody use… 4K is the most people use on PCs for the most part.
00:31:44.300 —> 00:31:49.060
I mean, the Microsoft Surface that I had, that was a pretty high-res screen.
00:31:49.060 —> 00:31:53.340
Mm-hmm. But what I’m saying… But they don’t also sell in the same volumes that Apple does.
00:31:53.340 —> 00:31:58.840
Like I guess what I’m saying is the only thing I can think of and I don’t know it to be the case and it may not be an issue whatsoever.
00:31:58.840 —> 00:32:03.840
The only thing I can think of is can they get the high resolution screens that they use in a touchscreen
00:32:03.840 —> 00:32:08.840
in a way that doesn’t interfere with the way it looks or the way it functions.
00:32:08.840 —> 00:32:12.340
But barring that, no I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t do it.
00:32:12.340 —> 00:32:15.840
That doesn’t mean they will and I honestly have no idea if they will.
00:32:15.840 —> 00:32:18.340
But there’s no reason not to.
00:32:18.340 —> 00:32:24.660
The biggest reason for me for having a touchscreen is just like signing documents and stuff.
00:32:24.660 —> 00:32:29.060
You know, it’s sometimes it’s just nice to be able to like do that right on the screen.
00:32:29.060 —> 00:32:34.900
I guess I don’t even know nowadays like with a Mac, the trackpads have gotten pretty big.
00:32:34.900 —> 00:32:42.180
So can you like sign your signature on a trackpad and have that translate to like a PDF document?
00:32:42.180 —> 00:32:45.940
I’m sure you can. But signing thing with a finger is never…
00:32:46.820 —> 00:32:54.820
Well, that’s like I have some capacitive stylus, styli, styluses, stylusies, I don’t know, which,
00:32:54.820 —> 00:33:00.340
you know, I use from time to time. And like right now, like if I have to sign something like DocuSign
00:33:00.340 —> 00:33:05.300
or whatnot, I usually end up doing it on the phone. But even with a giant, you know, giant
00:33:05.300 —> 00:33:09.780
quote unquote phone that I have right now, it’s still not as good as being able to do it on say
00:33:09.780 —> 00:33:15.300
a 12 or 14 inch, you know, touch screen. Did you say Lucy in the sky with diamonds?
00:33:15.860 —> 00:33:20.660
Lucy in the sky in the stylus with diamonds. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah, so I don’t know
00:33:20.660 —> 00:33:22.660
I think they should do it because
00:33:22.660 —> 00:33:27.160
If you don’t want to use it don’t use it if you do want to use it once in a while like like I have a
00:33:27.160 —> 00:33:31.060
Touchscreen laptop at work. I don’t usually use the touchscreen
00:33:31.060 —> 00:33:34.720
But once you know, I do for pinching and zooming for scrolling stuff like that
00:33:34.720 —> 00:33:38.500
It’s really nice to have when I want to and it does not matter whatsoever
00:33:38.500 —> 00:33:43.660
For the use of the laptop any other time and I don’t know why I don’t know why you wouldn’t
00:33:44.620 —> 00:33:48.460
Honestly, right now, I would be tempted to say doesn’t seem very likely.
00:33:48.460 —> 00:33:53.000
Yeah. I mean, it’s got it’s bad enough that I’ve even looked at
00:33:53.000 —> 00:33:55.840
like the little Microsoft Surface tablets.
00:33:55.840 —> 00:33:59.440
I forget even what they called now, but they’ve got like a small one.
00:33:59.440 —> 00:34:01.980
It’s like a 12 inch or so.
00:34:01.980 —> 00:34:04.380
And I used one, you know, it was over a year ago.
00:34:04.380 —> 00:34:08.020
I tried one out at a nearby micro center and I was like, you know,
00:34:08.020 —> 00:34:10.820
it’s actually pretty decent.
00:34:10.820 —> 00:34:13.880
But, you know, I really I I want to get back to Mac OS.
00:34:13.880 —> 00:34:18.140
I really like working in the Mac operating system in the macOS environment.
00:34:18.140 —> 00:34:20.180
So I really would like to have that again.
00:34:20.180 —> 00:34:21.940
How often are you signing stuff?
00:34:21.940 —> 00:34:25.940
Not often, but it’s just, you know, when I have to, that’s that’s a nice thing.
00:34:25.940 —> 00:34:30.580
So, you know, so anyway, I guess where I’m going with this is it’s
00:34:30.580 —> 00:34:34.640
I wouldn’t buy a Mac and an iPad for this reason.
00:34:34.640 —> 00:34:38.920
But if you’re using a Mac and you have an iPad, you can you could do a sidecar.
00:34:38.920 —> 00:34:42.780
Of course. Yes. But yeah, but that but that’s not the solution.
00:34:42.780 —> 00:34:45.720
That’s just something that’s available to people who happen to have both.
00:34:45.720 —> 00:34:47.960
I think Tim Cook would beg to differ.
00:34:47.960 —> 00:34:50.420
Well, he probably would, but.
00:34:50.420 —> 00:34:56.360
Well, everybody should have a Mac and an iPad and an iPhone.
00:34:56.360 —> 00:34:59.560
Is that Eeyore or is that Tim Cook?
00:34:59.560 —> 00:35:02.000
That was me doing a really bad Tim Cook impression.
00:35:02.000 —> 00:35:03.200
I don’t have enough input.
00:35:03.200 —> 00:35:07.740
I need more Tim Cook sample data to be able to do a good Tim Cook impression.
00:35:07.740 —> 00:35:09.740
It was a pretty good Eeyore, though.
00:35:09.740 —> 00:35:16.060
I’ll just buy an iPad, not that it matters.
00:35:16.060 —> 00:35:19.060
[Laughter]
00:35:19.060 —> 00:35:24.380
All right, on that note, I think I’ve pretty much my beer is dry.
00:35:24.380 —> 00:35:28.620
My beer is long gone. I don’t even know where my cup is. Oh, it’s over there across the room. Yeah,
00:35:28.620 —> 00:35:29.020
I don’t know.
00:35:29.020 —> 00:35:31.900
So, I think we should put a bow on this one.
00:35:31.900 —> 00:35:34.460
I think we should put a bow on it. A touch screen bow.
00:35:34.460 —> 00:35:38.860
So, if people want to find us, Scott -
00:35:38.860 —> 00:35:46.860
Oh no, you ask me this every time. Well, I know from my friend Peter and his use of the of the phrase friendswithbeer.com
00:35:46.860 —> 00:35:52.060
and his insistence upon it that friendswithbeer.com is a good place to go.
00:35:52.060 —> 00:35:55.580
And we also have a Twitter account, whatever Twitter account.
00:35:55.580 —> 00:35:57.100
Twitter account.
00:35:57.100 —> 00:36:04.220
Yeah, we do have one of them and I think beer.tweetback.us will get you there.
00:36:04.220 —> 00:36:08.220
Let me type that and find out. This is exciting. Oh yeah, look, beer.tweetback.us.
00:36:08.220 —> 00:36:11.360
That’ll take you to twitter.com/friendswbeerpod
00:36:11.360 —> 00:36:14.700
So just before we give
00:36:14.700 —> 00:36:18.220
Eretria
00:36:18.220 —> 00:36:20.700
Eretria the company of Eretria is
00:36:20.700 —> 00:36:27.100
The owner of the dot ER top-level domain. Oh, there is a dot ER
00:36:27.100 —> 00:36:31.340
There is a dot ER and the registry is with Aritel
00:36:31.340 —> 00:36:34.420
Eretria telecom
00:36:34.420 —> 00:36:36.500
Seriously, they’re the only ones that sell that
00:36:36.980 —> 00:36:43.140
They are the first ones that comes that comes up when I look in Wikipedia. They are the only ones listed
00:36:43.140 —> 00:36:50.780
That doesn’t make any sense. Oh sure. I mean companies can countries that are small enough. They can get away with a single registrar
00:36:50.780 —> 00:36:57.160
Why not right, but usually well, I guess usually other other domain resellers
00:36:57.160 —> 00:37:04.380
Eventually carry all the other country perhaps. Yeah, maybe so I’m just trying I’m waiting for oh here
00:37:04.380 —> 00:37:06.380
he goes Eritrea telecom has
00:37:06.380 —> 00:37:10.980
”Apply for services, apply online, enterprise services.”
00:37:10.980 —> 00:37:12.420
I don’t see domain names.
00:37:12.420 —> 00:37:13.380
That’s too bad.
00:37:13.380 —> 00:37:14.780
’Cause it’d be nice if we could try
00:37:14.780 —> 00:37:17.700
to buy friendswithb.er.
00:37:17.700 —> 00:37:21.700
No, it has to have two Es, so it’d be friends with…
00:37:21.700 —> 00:37:23.180
Oh, I see, I get it, yeah, yeah.
00:37:23.180 —> 00:37:24.380
Friendswithb.er.
00:37:24.380 —> 00:37:25.300
B.
00:37:25.300 —> 00:37:26.500
.er.
00:37:26.500 —> 00:37:28.120
Yep.
00:37:28.120 —> 00:37:31.660
So I think that instead of Peter and Scottville
00:37:31.660 —> 00:37:33.300
or Scott and Peterville, whatever you called it,
00:37:33.300 —> 00:37:35.460
I think we should have friends with Beerville.
00:37:35.460 —> 00:37:37.860
Beerville friends with Beerville.
00:37:37.860 —> 00:37:39.780
Sounds great. Let’s get right on that.
00:37:39.780 —> 00:37:43.620
All right. Sounds good. Bye listeners.